Kasparov interview with Yuri Vasiliev, Sport Express 14th March 2005. - http://www.sport-express.ru/art.shtml?100546 in russian - Translated by: Ravi Abhyankar.
Garry Kasparov: ‘‘Chess has given me everything!’’
This interview with the 13th World Champion took place last Thursday. Rather, there were two interviews. First – immediately after the game against Topalov and before the press conference during which Garry announced his exit from professional chess. Second – after the press conference when we took a walk on the streets of Linares late evening.
Countdown
We were in Kasparov’s hotel room. The same room which he occupied during all his 14 ‘Lianreses’. Everything was as usual: the chess board on the large table; on the board - the position from the last game. I just had to move the white king a little to make place for my Dictaphone.
In this tournament, Garry, you played until your game with Anand. In that game you allowed Anand an easy draw... this had never happened before; you did not apply any pressure with white...
- This morning, before the game with Topalov, I told my mother: ‘‘Chess is taking its revenge... this is not the way to leave it...’’ Can you believe it, I waited myself; waited for a blunder from me. And made it. Chess does not allow you to relax. But I couldn’t do anything. Before each game I was counting down, just like they do before launching a rocket: ‘8...7...6...5...4...’. And, at last, after the game with Adams I told myself: ‘‘That’s it ! My last professional tournament is over!’’
After that I lost all interest. Had I not won against Adams, I would have played with all seriousness against Anand and Topalov.
Nonetheless, it was you who – as per the rules – won the tournament.
Unfortunately, this freak rule – of counting wins with black – I was well familiar with.
-Was the decision to leave professional chess taken before the start of the tournament?
In the beginning, I didn’t want to come even to Linares. But then I forced myself. After all, it is such a tournament... sacred...
- And you played here no worse than in the Russian Championship. In one of my reports, I wrote that your favorite dish in the restaurants of Moscow and Linares is ‘‘Plus Five.’’ A little premature...
- There were mistakes, in the first round – against Anand and Kasimdzanov. There was complete exhaustion in the last game – against Topalov. But on the whole, I played better than the other players. Maybe, some people will not understand this, not see this. For me it was clear. And the game against Adams convinced me. After that game I called my trainer, Alexander Shakarov, on phone; to wish him a happy birthday. He told me: ‘’ You played extremely well! This is the time to leave...’’
- The game against Adams also showed the depth of your analytical skills. On the board, when it appeared that the black king will meet his death any moment, you calmly left your table and went for a walk. Adams didn’t know what to do...
- We had studied this position well. I, of course, well knew the idea of the variation, for example, on Be3-Bg5, the Bishop should be taken away by playing Be5. But the move Bb7-a8 I found at the board. It is impossible to analyse everything, try to figure out a way for the opponent to mate you. By the way, after the game I continued the analysis on the computer. I found that a better chance for white after my Bf6-e5 was Bg5-f4...
- Does a tournament without Vladimir Kramnik differ substantially from a tournament with him?
- Without Kramnik the tournament always has more fight. I came here in a different mood this year as compared to the last. Kramnik knew this very well. He feels intuitively when it is wise not to play...
Kramnik always scored his ‘’ +2’’. In 2000, when we shared the first place, he got ‘’ + 2’’. Last year, he won the tournament and got once again ‘’ +2’’. When he shared the first place with Leko, he got ‘’+2’’. In 1999, when I made ‘’+7’’, he made his ‘’+2’’. After the Russian Championship, where I got ‘’ +5’’, Kramnik knew, I will score more here. Moreover, if you look at his performance at Waik-an-zee, he might not have scored ‘’+2’’ here...
In this year’s tournament, two players played well – Adams and Topalov. One was very unlucky, luck favoured the other. Adams, in both his games against Topalov, had absolutely winning positions. In the end, he scored only half a point from the two games. If Michael had won the two games, the result of the tournament could have been different.
Talking about Leko, he created a ‘’record’’ which it will be difficult to break: 12 draws in a row! He regrets about ‘’decline in form’’ and he is 25. At his age, I won all the tournaments and continued to win them for ten years! I don’t understand how you can talk about ‘’decline’’ at the age of 25. I will never understand...
All of them find excuses, why they play badly. And I always simply played chess. I didn’t talk of any ‘’decline’’ at 25. At 30 – I never complained about health.
Reasons behind retirement
- I suppose if your match against the Fide champion was not cancelled, you would not have considered retirement. Maybe, this is what triggered the decision?
-How could that not trigger?! And the reaction of the players. When the match in Yalta was cancelled, everyone was happy. Kramnik said at every corner that ‘’injustice’’ was done to Ponomariev. Absurd logic... Ponomariev got money for the match he did not play. Topalov along with Danilov also got money!
- The match against Kasimdzanov was cancelled. But Linares-2005 showed that the current Fide champion is still raw. Did you really need a match with him?
- I agree that match with Kasimdzanov would have added nothing to my life. Why, then, did everyone feel happy, when the match was cancelled? Let them be happy. Let them live like they have always lived. I will soon be 42. But I still play better than them. My blunder in the game against Topalov was a result of a specific psychological situation. It has no relation to the level of my play.
- Not being able to have a return match against Kramnik also had a negative influence?
- Kramnik avoided the match, and everyone was happy: ‘’ what a man of principles’’ ! Kramnik created a title for himself – ‘’World Champion in Classical chess.’’ What does it mean: ‘Classical Chess’’? Then you have what, Anand, ‘’World Champion in Rapid chess’’? I think there should be a World Champion – that’s all.
I tried to look at the situation in a fair way. I can’t say I did everything right all the time. But I considered things which were fair and good for chess. My opponents, on the other hand, had a premise: everything that I propose is – bad. I need motivation to continue my professional activities. I don’t see any motivation any more.
- Isn’t getting back the world champion’s title enough of a motivation?
- Getting it back is utterly impossible. They don’t want to give me another chance! They know very well that when the time comes, I am able to beat any of them – Kramnik, Leko, Anand... no matter who, I will defeat him! Because, like before, I play chess better than anyone else. Since that is the situation, they will not give me a chance to get back the title.
-It is difficult to imagine a Linares tournament without you... do you really plan never to play here again?
- I am finishing my professional career. If I feel like playing again – for pleasure – I will play in rapid, blitz... in the internet, of course, I will play. But all this – only for fun. Chess will no longer be work for me. For 25 years, chess has been my work. Out of that, for 20 years I headed the rating-list.
- I remember how that rating peaked at ‘’2851’’. After the current Linares, it will be ‘’2813’’.
- I think they will not get there for a long time to come.
Decision-making model
- Your work on history of chess, entitled ‘‘My great predecessors’’, initially planned to be in three volumes, was later converted to five, and now they are saying it will be in seven...
- I think, there will be ten volumes. Currently work is being done on the fifth volume – Karpov, Korchnoi, the 1970s. There is a lot of material and very interesting. The sixth volume will have all my matches with Karpov. Then – a two volume set of my best games. Those will be followed by my matches with computer. An additional volume will be done without any chess material – it will be dedicated to the life history of all champions. In all, it will be a book in ten volumes.
By the way, another book of mine is getting published soon, in 15 languages. Its tentative title is ‘’How Chess imitates life.’’(sic) The book is about the philosophy in chess. How to use it in life. It will be published in October-November. It is a very important book, I have done a lot of thinking on it. I will now go to America to finish it with my writer colleague. I must hand it over by May.
This book may change the perception about chess in the whole world. It may become a bestseller. If properly advertised. That is why it is necessary for me to visit the key countries, such as America, a few times.
Chess is a game that allows the analysis of the decision making process. I have given many lectures on this subject. The lectures were successful, and I myself am fascinated by the subject. I try to tell people, how chess can explain the structure of decision making.
- I see here a paradox: thanks to chess you decide to leave chess...
- I am a person who needs goals. I must always have a goal which I want to accomplish. For example, to play a match for the world championship. Or to increase my rating. I needed the Russian Championship, because my rating was under threat. I was in two minds: retire or not... but it was important for me to leave with the top rating. And it must be over ‘’2800’’. I had the same goals at Linares.
I understand that my decision to leave chess is a very difficult one to explain to people. But the fact is that the brain cannot concentrate on the game any longer. It has moved on. I get up in the morning and think:: I must do this, that and that. There is little place for thinking about chess.
Summing Up
Now – the second interview with Kasparov, which happened after the press conference. This was the final stroll in the city which became famous thanks to Garry. Indeed, Luis Rentero, the founder of the Linares tournament, declared at the closing ceremony that the hall where the games are played will be named after Kasparov.
-You played 14 tournaments here. Which are the most memorable?
- The 1997 tournament, possibly, was the best. Twice I scored ‘’+7’’ – in 1992 and 1993. 1993 was tougher, with fights from Anand and Karpov. In that year, I played the last five games against Anand, Karpov, Gelfand, Shirov and Kamski. And scored 4.5 out of 5! Moreover, my wins against Anand and Karpov were pretty. One after the other. Do you remember how Karpov had all his figures stranded in the back row?
-Of course! It was a unique sight!
- These were the best tournaments: 1992, 1993, 1997 and 1999.
- In 1999, you beat Anand... and also mated Topalov with his king right at the centre of the board...
- In the same a year a unique tournament was played in Weik-an-zee.
- However, the best tournaments happened in Linares?
-Not really. One of the most brilliant and strongest tournaments during the ten year period, when I worked with Yuri Dokhoyan, was in Las-palmas, in 1996.
- The first 21-category tournament...
-Yes, it was a very strong tournament! It didn’t have any player of the level of Vallejo or Kasimdzanov. You could play only against the players of your own level. Interesting that the last place was shared by Karpov and Ivanchuk... I have good memories from that tournament. That time we thought that our theoretical preparation was great. And now I understand, that theory then was simply laughable... currently, my database has 17 thousand variations... it’s sad – such a database will be lost!
- Your record – ten tournament victories in a row – also a brilliant achievement!
- Yes, not a weak sequence. But I don’t think it had any very strong tournament included.
-Human race, I am certain, will remember your matches with Deep Blue. I was fortunate to cover them both the times for Sport Express...
- The first match with Deep Blue was very interesting. A lot of negative things happened with the second. Anyhow, this was an important event in our lives.
-How many Olympics did you play in?
- Eight times I was part of the Champion team.
- All eight times – on the first board?
- On the first board – 6 times. Petrosyan played in 10 Olympics and was part of the champion team 9 times. But on the first board he played only thrice.
-And how many matches did you play?
-Depends on which. For the world championship, I played five matches with Karpov. One each with Short, Anand and Kramnik.
- The most interesting and memorable, I am sure, were with Karpov.
- Yes, of course! It was a great fight, singular in history of chess. The match against Short, on the other hand, was not at all memorable. I was much stronger. Match against Anand was interesting. It was a start of a new era: for the first time, computers were used very seriously as part of the preparation. The first serious computer analyses began to appear in 1996, 1997.
This revolutionary breakthrough reached its peak in the tournaments Weik-an-zee and Linares, 1999, after which all players learnt well to work with computers. This was an interesting time. Do you remember the game against Anand, with a wonderful endgame? The win was a result of our deep preparation with computer. In this year’s Linares, there were also a few examples.
Imagination and Discipline
- What is most important in the computer preparation?
- Imagination and discipline.
- You have met many great chessplayers. Who comes to mind first?
- In terms of importance of my contact, I will say Mikhail Botvinnik. In terms of enjoying conversation – Mikhail Tal. But important to remember, that every great chessplayer I had the fortune to meet, was a legend. When I was 16, 17, 18; in front of the ‘grandfathers’ I was very small. The possibility of talking to them itself meant a lot to me. In the third and fourth volumes of ‘’the great predecessors’’ I have written about this.
- Is there anything in your professional career that you would like to cut out?
-Not cut out, but change. I would change the rules of playing with Deep Blue. Already in the first match, in Philadelphia, I smelt dishonesty; but didn’t attach any importance to it, since I won the match. But before the second match, in New York, I should have demanded a stricter control over the computer programmes and the work of the IBM programmers.
Besides that, in 1993, I would not do the meaningless things connected to the match with Short.
- Are you saying that match in London should have happened through Fide? Starting war with the chess federation was a mistake?
- ‘War’ is not the right expression. Unfortunately, when a person who is a long-time leader in a certain field begins to take initiatives for change; people automatically suspect he is doing it for his personal benefit. The problem was that I proposed many new ideas, and people thought: What is he planning to get out of this?
This explained the collapse of PCA (Professional Chess Association) as well. In fact, this was the only time when corporate money was given for chess. Intel took a conscious decision to finance chess for a significant length of time.
Intel supported chess for two years. That it refused to support chess thereafter was blamed on me. In reality, Intel refused because it could not be part of a scandal for a long time. If a greater feeling of responsibility had existed in chess, the situation might have developed in a different way.
-Which were the happiest moments of your career?
-I was lucky in life – there were two such moments. Moscow-1985, the Tchaikovsky Hall, 24th game of the match against Karpov, when I won the world championship title. And Seville-1987, again game 24, when I won against Karpov ‘’on demand’’ to retain my title. First thing that I shouted then: ‘’Three years!’’ That was the time that was given to me to enjoy the title. In my subconscious I understood that this victory gives the authentic status, until then all I had were the stepping stones.
-Won’t you miss Linares?
- One must do things which change something... it’s possible to play 15th Linares, 16th Linares... it’s possible to fight for this victory, that victory. What’s the point? After 2000, my goal was not only to top the rating list, but also to get back the title. Most of my actions are explained by that goal. Prague can also be explained by that goal.
-Do you regret becoming involved in the unification process?
- With hindsight, of course, I regret! But I was obliged to do it, to try to the end. I sincerely wanted a chance to fight for the title. Unfortunately, life showed that except me, nobody else needed this. Now it is clear: the elite grandmasters are not keen to have unification.
It’s not we who opened the Pandora’s box
- You are the main expert on use of computers in chess. Don’t you regret becoming among the first to open this Pandora’s box?
- First, we didn’t open anything. That computes have appeared is not our fault, and that they have changed the notion of chess is also not our fault.
It is true computers change the players’ approach to the game; they force you to work in a different manner; demand new things. Another set of abilities is needed to adapt. New possibilities emerge in the opening theory, but the player needs a skill to avoid getting drowned in variations.
-Is it necessary to play with the machines?
- Yes, it is normal. It is interesting to play against the computers, if of course not with three-dimensional glasses, like I did the last time in New York... it is difficult to fight with the machine, but it has to be treated as an experiment. An experiment which I did. The last two matches – one with ‘’Junior’’ and the other with ‘’Fritz’’, we could prepare ourselves well, we were given games of the computers, we could plan the strategy for the match. Both these matches showed that the edge is as yet with the human race. But to maintain this edge, a very different game is needed.
-The last question, Garry. What has chess given you?
- Everything.
And with a big grin, Kasparov repeated with feeling:
- Chess has given me everything!
Yuri Vasiliev, Sport Express.
Translated by: Ravi Abhyankar